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Serie Ninja

Re: Serie Ninja

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Re: Serie Ninja

prendendo questo come topic di riferimento per Ninja vi vado a pubblicare gli errata/modifiche dalla versione anni 80 a quella Megara

Vendicatore! ha scritto:

General gameplay

In the game rules, the authors instructed us to change throw mechanics.  Throws used to give a bonus to damage only; now they ALSO give a bonus to your Punch Modifier or Kick Modifier.  (This allows for more complex strategy.  Some players mistakenly thought this was true in the original anyway, because the rules said "it will be much easier to strike a thrown opponent.")

Clarified how kicks, throws, and Inner Force interact.  (Order of operations.)

Put the enemy's counter attack into its own subsection in the rules for ease of use.

Clarified shuriken rules.  (The original presented rules but then almost always ignored them.  Now the book acknowledges that results vary.)

In the main paragraphs, the authors raised the amount of Endurance restored from brief rest.  Instead of 1-3, you might get 2-5.  (This does not affect anything larger, like 10 Endurance rest, but gives more of a reason to bother recording the tinier bits.)

All combat sections including throws give full enemy statistics.

Whenever you can injure an enemy early, e.g., with a shuriken, the text now tells you the enemy's Endurance early so you can do proper record-keeping.

Clarified combat with special rules, e.g., a throw that has an extra chance of success the first time it is used, and made the presentation uniform.

Flowchart errors and crashes

118.  Corrected to send you to 390 instead of 301.

126.  Changed to allow you to proceed even if you have neither the required skill nor any Inner Force.

244.  Corrected to send you to 236 instead of 326.

326.  Corrected to send you to 356 instead of 311.

356.  Now exists.  At all.

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

9.  Eliminated casual reference to shuriken, as you might have none left.

47.  Runeweaver is no longer said to have his sight restored (except by implication), as it was possible for him not to have been blinded in the first place.

118, 245, 278, 319, 367.  Eliminated references to left arm, as it could have been broken.

282.  You no longer use two shuriken, as the instructions only say you will use one if you choose to go here and you might have only one left.

372.  The magician no longer talks about killing the Snow Giant (except by implication), as you might have killed it first.

Conflicts and logic errors

321.  Established 26 Endurance on the Elder God.  (The original section 321 conflicted with 333 and said only 22 Endurance, which would have made it weaker than the Two-headed Giant.)

343.  Eliminated the option to go to the City of Far Snows.  (You already decided not to do so and can't exactly go back.)

Style

Standardized capitalization of skills, martial arts moves, combat mechanics, and collectable items.

Standardized uncapitalization of ninja tools, excepting only the Blood of Nil.

Standardized spelling of "Island of Plenty," "Deirdra," "All-Mother," "Halvorc," and others.

Standardized phrasing as "Forked Lightning kick" with no "Strike" in the name.  (This eliminates confusion with the Cobra Strike punch in places where the text leaves out "kick" or "punch.")

Rephrased all references to a skill to say its proper name.  (This prevents confusion that could be caused by casual use in a sentence.)

Changed many sentences for flow and clarity, e.g., by comma use or reordering terms.  Many, many sentences.

Other

Glossed over money.  The player might collect "some gold pieces," but no longer is told how many.  (The original was ambiguous over whether you should record numbers on your Character Sheet.  You cannot run out of gold pieces anywhere in the series, so it is worthwhile to prevent player confusion.  Note that talents of gold in book 4 are a different matter.)

11, 218.  Made explicit that you do not retrieve your shuriken.

164, 233, 282.  Made explicit that you get your shuriken back.  (Usually you are only told when you do NOT retrieve one, but it seemed helpful in these sections.  Other sections still leave you to assume you get your shuriken back as the default.)

396.  The authors eliminated the Kick Modifier penalty.  (It was a nasty surprise when just starting out, it was ambiguous whether it would be restored at the end of the book, and any such restoration would be really difficult to communicate to a reader given all the other intervening changes to the Character Sheet.)

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

74.  You no longer "realise" where you are, as you might have scouted this area before.

Flowchart errors and crashes

166.  Edited to send you to 398 instead of 402.  (Section 398 has an "if you have not tried to enter the keep already" check which you would always fail in the original version.  With this change it is now possible to pass the check.)

398.  Added the option to go to 156.  (Section 398 is the go-to place for players who scouted beforehand, so adding the scouted option is needed.)

418.  Eliminated the option to go to 402, reducing to a single option for assaulting the keep.  (You cannot transport yourself through time anymore.)

Assassino! ha scritto:

As with book 1, tidied various combat mechanics, clarified shuriken use, nudged Endurance restoration, glossed over needless record-keeping about gold, and so on.

This wasn't explained in as much detail in book 1's changelog, but the authors also wanted combat effects to be more tidy.  Instead of anything vague like "subtract from your next roll," the text now talks about "your Modifier" or "damage" by name.  Effects are also more predictable: when you throw an enemy, you can expect a bonus of +2 now instead of sometimes getting only +1. (Really special effects, like unexpectedly winning a fight by making a throw, are kept as-is.)

Style

As with book 1, standardized the capitalization, spelling, and phrasing.

Flowchart errors and crashes

59.  Edited to send you to 303 instead of 147.  (Section 147 has an "if you can't or don't want to do this, go back to the previous section" line, but it links to 43 which is not helpful here.)

82.  Edited to send you to 318 instead of 147.  (Section 147 has an "if you can't or don't want to do this, go back to the previous section" line, but it links to 43 which is not helpful here.)

85.  Added the instruction to go to 249 if your opponent is dead.

109.  Eliminated the option to die, because, of all things, you can't.

163.  Added the instruction to go to 297 if your opponent is dead.  Added the "countdown" to go to section 337.

287, 338.  Changed to allow you to proceed even if you have none of the required skills, items, or Inner Force.

303.  Replaced with text similar to 147, now linking to 47, 89, 8, and 59.

318.  Replaced with text similar to 147, now linking to 47, 89, 8, and 82.

336.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 318 and 303, now linking to 286 and 270.

389.  Eliminated the option to go to 340 and the reference to Mardolh's poisonous tail as "withered."  (This route is defined by the use of the Water Crystal and not the Sun-star Ring, meaning there is exactly one state of the enemy and zero opportunity to use another item.  Now you cannot wither Mardolh's tail by checking your pockets.)

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

94.  The enemies don't run yet, as they are described as running in the subsequent joining of routes at 297.

98.  Eliminated casual reference to Cassandra's Dagger, as you might not have it.

124.  The "evil grin" is described just a little differently, as the route here could have involved an "evil smile" already.

153.  You are no longer surprised to see the tunnel, as you may have been told about it.

210.  Your "thoughts of reward" are rephrased, as you may have made a choice to abandon such reward, and you may have no bodies around to grant a reward anyway.

231.  No "withering" happens to Mardolh's poisonous tail at this time, as the wither already happened in this route.

335, 354.  The breeze is no longer specified as coming from open doors, as you could have remained in a closed room this whole time.

418.  It's now clear that Thaum survives, as otherwise it would be confusing to see him act in the subsequent 404.

420.  "Some weeks" are now "some days," as the amount of time involved can vary by your route.

Conflicts and logic errors

95.  Eliminated the idea of having to "repay your debt" to Kwon, or getting a reward from Kwon when "you reach the Island of Tranquil Dreams."  (This could lead the player to misunderstand or misuse the game mechanic.)

140, 154.  Swapped the Brigand Leader's Defence between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.)

156, 166, 173, 207, 301.  Added the options to go to all possible attacks or repeat the same attack.  (The original had some unexplained absences.)

247.  Added more references to time passing, as an entire battle is supposed to happen while you are engaged.  (It remains a bit iffy because you can't sit around for multiple days, but is more believable now.)  Also added some Endurance restoration, paralleling the restoration in 66 but a little weaker.

251.  Eliminated casual reference to "hurting it," as no statistics are given for the damage.

275, 306.  Swapped the Goblin King's Defence between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.)  Also added the option to go to 419, which may have been absent for a good reason, but Avenger wouldn't know that.

308.  The sword is now described as already having been drawn, as it seems only to have been an error or holdover from a previous flowchart that it was described differently.

350.  Added a gift of three shuriken, paralleling the gift in 66.  (Following scenes assume you have shuriken.)

Other

5, 172, 238.  Edited references to the Goblin's Teeth Mountains, the creatures that live there, and the results of your visit.  (This avoids the confusion possible in the original section 238, which asked, simply, if you knew what creatures lived there.  This also avoids giving away the results of your visit to players who may never have followed that route.)

11, 48, 66, 91, 168, 344, 350, 376, 406.  A big heap of edits relevant to the Island of Plenty in specific and the "orient" in general:

Edited the description of samurai armor to be metal.  (Historically, samurai armor was metal covered with lacquer.  The original described the armor as "lacquered wood," due either to the resultant appearance or to a brain going on autopilot after typing the word "lacquered.")

Edited compass directions and geographic details on the Island of Plenty.  (Now, for the first time, we have an authorized map of the island to reference.)

Edited the description of Kiyamo to emphasize how he is the shogun.  (The original called him "daimyo" from the start and "shogun" only once, making it confusing.)

Edited references to seppuku to say it is performed, not committed.

13.  Eliminated Endurance and shuriken restoration because you've already won.

59, 99, 107.  Added a note that you may call upon your god again, for he didn't hear you.

268, 284.  Clarified the rules of the dogfight.

289.  Lowered the gift of shuriken to two instead of five.  (You get quite a lot in this book. This reduction is balanced with the situation noted earlier at 350.)

297.  Changed it so that you destroy the tablet, not pocket it.  (You do not use this tablet for anything, and Avenger is in the habit of destroying evidence, so it makes more sense this way and is less confusing for player bookkeeping.)

340.  Edited to send you to 396 instead of 301.  (You can choose another action at will instead of being forced to attack if you have no items.)

Usurpatore! ha scritto:

After book 2, it was clear that some logical or flowchart errors could only be fixed by squeezing in new content.  One could do that by repurposing linear sections: that is, sections where the book has you go to 78, then 78 doesn't give you any choices and just sends you to 246, then 246 does the same and just sends you to 351.  Combining those sections frees up space for new content.

So there's a whole bunch of those revisions today.  It should be good practice for book 6.  Again, we welcome your input if you know something that needed correcting back in the 1980's version of book 3 but is missing here.

General gameplay

As with other books, tidied various combat mechanics, clarified shuriken use, glossed over needless record-keeping about gold, and so on.  There wasn't much need to nudge Endurance restoration as this book tended only to give it in big batches.

In the section on Special Rules for This Book, we worked with the authors to change the Modifier bonus you get from completing the previous book.  There is no more randomness: you now have your choice of two +1 bonuses from Punch, Kick, and/or Throw (you have to choose two different ones).

Style

As with other books, standardized the capitalization, spelling, and phrasing.

Flowchart errors and crashes

63.  Corrected by swapping success and failure between 103 and 113.

76, 117, 145, 289.  Eliminated the option to go to 10, keeping the fight in the second naginata stage.  (You can no longer loop through time by repeatedly failing to break the naginata.)

304.  Corrected to send you to 21 instead of 121.

373, 384, 397.  Moved all discussion of the fear effect into 373.  (You no longer can avoid facing the effect by your order of actions.)

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

42, 151.  The Golem is not described as "apparently indestructible" right now, as you could have come here after learning how to defeat it.

47.  Doré le Jeune no longer lowers his visor, as you could have gotten here without ever seeing his face.

237.  His voice is no longer described, as this information is presented later in a successful conversation.  (He still introduces himself a second time, but the overall flow is better now.  And, arguably, that behavior is appropriate for Doré le Jeune anyway.)

291.  Creatures are no longer described as being summoned "from the lower planes," as you could follow a route where the only foes are from this world.

388.  You no longer go to the doors, as you'd just perform the same again in the next section.

401.  Blurred the distance traveled to reach the Hostel from the Edge.  (You can start from the Temple to Dama, which is almost next door, or the barracks, which is across most of the city.)

416.  The voice is no longer called "familiar," as you might never have heard it before.  Also the reference to failing a mission is reworked here, because you haven't failed one.

Conflicts and logic errors

38, 56, 117, 145.  Swapped Aiguchi the Weaponmaster's Defence between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.)

86, 93, 156, 178, 197.  Added the options to go to all possible attacks or repeat the same attack.  (The original had some unexplained absences.)

130, 159, 168, 176, 403.  Overhauled the Golspiel interaction with more logical "agreement," "neutral," and "betrayal" routes.  In 130, eliminated the option to go to 403.  In 176, eliminated the option to go to 138.  (The conclusion of the book can still read a little oddly if you completely skip talking to Golspiel, but the logic problems are avoided.  This is to be tied into edits in book 4 correcting conflicting statements there too.)

134, 140.  Swapped the Cave Troll's Defence, and Avenger's Defence, between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.)

245, 321, 406.  Changed the Potion of Healing to give 10 Endurance, like all other Potions of Healing, instead of 8 Endurance, like the Bag of Herbs from book 1.

252.  Reframed to be an arm injury and a -1 to your Punch Modifier, instead of the loss of Arrow Cutting and a -1 when using shuriken.  (The story conflicts with subsequent events in book 4 where similar injury gives no penalty.  Also, the loss of an entire skill is downright brutal.)

270.  Created an actual Feigning Death skill check out of this text which sounded a lot like one.

363.  Added more to the description of reaching for a shuriken, as the actual options presented to the player do not include using a plain shuriken.

Section repurposing

4.  Replaced section.  Reminder of the insight about the Rift received through prayer, now linking to 352.  (The original let you learn about the Rift but then forget it if you went to the Mountains of Horn, meaning a good chance of death even as you stood in front of the Rift itself.  With this repurposed section, those who pray get a reminder if they reach the Rift.)

13.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 27, freeing up space for the "Aiguchi" correction, and now linking to 40.

27.  Replaced section.  Text similar to 309 but including getting a Potion of Healing from Aiguchi, and now linking to 416.  (The original required very specific circumstances for you to get the potion, but those didn't properly interact with the circumstances where Aiguchi drank it first.  With this repurposed section, you get the potion when you deserve.)

65, 303.  Edited to send you to 27 instead of 309 for the "Aiguchi" correction.

97.  Added the option to go to 4 for the "insight" correction.

114.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 4, freeing up space for the "insight" correction, and now linking to 414.

379.  Replaced section.  A description of a multi-day journey to deal with the Golem, now linking to 352.  (The original had a discrepancy in describing how long it takes, where praying beforehand would shave days off the journey, but then later you still would get your "first sleep for days."  With this repurposed section, those who pray spend days in transit too.)

391, 409.  Edited to send you to 379 instead of 352 for the "Golem" correction.

404.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 379, freeing up space for the "Golem" correction, and now linking to 366, 353, 342 and 333.

Other

12, 20, 37, 242, 341, 363.  Added the option to use the Enchanted Shuriken from book 1 in the off chance you have it.

15.  Edited compass directions and geographic details on the Island of Plenty.  (Now, for the first time, we have an authorized map of the island to reference.)

30, 198.  Clarified that special attack rules no longer apply in this second fight against Astaroth.

172, 181.  Clarified the tax-exempt status of certain temples.  (The original said Nemesis was the only temple to avoid taxes, but then 172 elaborated that the Temple to Time enjoys the same.)

172, 199.  Eliminated Endurance restoration in Irsmuncast, instead granting it all during the last leg of travel.  (You cannot possibly lose Endurance in the interim.)

183, 402.  Half-clarified, half-revised so that you may continue regardless of your remaining Endurance.  (The scene is about the nature of life and death, so this is appropriate.)

185.  Eliminated Endurance loss.  (This route leads to death no matter what, so annoying the player with record-keeping isn't worthwhile.)

200.  Added the option to go to 57 if you used both the Enchanted Shuriken and the Silver Shuriken.

229, 251.  Added the option to use the Bag of Herbs from book 1 in the off chance you have it.

291.  Edited the spiritual flight to be, well, less of a direct copy from the flight with Togawa in book 1.

381.  Lamentably, removed reference to the famous "scribing error."  (We have one map of the Manmarch for all these books and so Ulrik's Haven does not shift apparent position.)

Signore Supremo! ha scritto:

As with other books, tidied various combat mechanics, clarified shuriken use, nudged Endurance restoration, glossed over needless record-keeping about gold, and so on.

Added the Blood of Nil to the opening material.  The original books 2 and 3 stated that you had already used the Blood of Nil, while books 4 and later quietly spoke as though you had it replaced somehow.  Now we explain that you acquire more from the strange loot and otherworldly personal effects left behind by the Usurper.

Style

As with other books, standardized the capitalization, spelling, and phrasing.

Flowchart errors and crashes

135.  Added the option to go to 115 if you have the Lord High Steward or Foxglove, just like all similar sections of Golspiel's trial (85 or 105).

324.  Corrected to send you to 338 instead of 354.  (You may no longer bypass the fight by a combination of a throw and a punch.  Usually, the ability to bypass a fight comes with some narrative explanation, but this lacks any explanation and can be presumed to be an error.)

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

55, 343.  Emphasized that neither Star Chamber nor the Halls of Justice do anything while the Demagogue does his work, as otherwise it would conflict with all the events happening "tomorrow."

115, 155, 165.  The Lord High Steward's involvement is now couched in terms of whether he's still alive, as, well, he might not be.

187.  The Temple to Nemesis is now described as seeking any excuse to retaliate, as otherwise it's unclear why they'd rebel in 197 in response to pressure on the Temple to Time.

277, 287, 367, 377.  The consequences of abolishing the Order of the Yellow Lotus are explained in more detail (though with no actual effects on gameplay), as they could have been Keepers of the Watch.

363.  Golspiel's trial is no longer specified as being scheduled for today, as weeks may have passed due to the Demagogue's work.

Conflicts and logic errors

42.  Changed the Potion of Healing to give 10 Endurance, like all other Potions of Healing, instead of 5 Endurance, which wouldn't be terribly helpful.

47.  You no longer thank Foxglove for her help, as thanking her is reserved for scenes where you act on her advice.

75, 145, 303.  Eliminated all references to killing Force-Lady Gwyneth, since it can't happen.  (The only merit would be in preventing the player from teasing out the results of other choices.  However, killing her is never explicitly offered to the player.  Further, in some cases it is possible to couch the text in terms of "the shieldmaidens" instead of her by name, so avoiding the question is easy.)

104, 116.  Swapped the Priest of Nemesis's Defence between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.)

273.  The Lord-High Steward no longer supports the Order of the Yellow Lotus.  (In the original, agreeing with his proposal and going to section 333 would lead to the surprising revelation that you recruited the Temple to Nemesis.  Now you know in advance.)

289, 299.  Edited these references to "rush matting," as that only exists underfoot in the Temple to Kwon, and here you're fighting in the Palace.

309.  Removed the description of Mandrake's ruined features suddenly becoming recognizable, as no other section describes his disguise as magical, and this is a particularly unlikely place for him to be recognized by face anyway.

311.  Removed the option to go to 361, where you imprison Golspiel, and collapsed that content into 371, where you order Golspiel to stand trial, as all later sections treat these two exactly the same.  (This simplification is also of benefit in section repurposing, below.)

379.  Edited this reference to "your bodyguards," as that only applies in the Palace, and here you're fighting in the Temple to Kwon.

405.  Eliminated the option to go to 7, as that comes from Golspiel being banished and you can only get here by cooperating with him.

413.  The Lord-High Steward no longer blames the Usurper for killing the last Overlord.  (Even the common folk of the city know the real killer, as shown in book 3, section 263.)  Also, the Lord-High Steward no longer supports Antocidas and the mercenaries.  (In the original, agreeing with his proposal and going to section 45 would lead to the surprising revelation that you recruited the Temple to Nemesis.  Now you know in advance.)

Section repurposing

1.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 11, freeing up space for the "Foxglove" correction, and now linking to 41.

11.  Replaced section.  Conclusion to the assassination scene where you kill the enemy and then react more naturally to Foxglove's warning, now linking to 162.  (The original had you "send her a message of thanks" whether she helped you or not.  Now you only read this if she did.)

33.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 288, freeing up space for the "Golspiel" correction, and now linking to 9.

99.  Edited to send you to 341 instead of 109 (the latter sections are essentially identical in the original), freeing up space for the "Solstice" correction.

103.  Edited to send you to 361 instead of 113 for the "Solstice" correction.

109.  Replaced section.  Proceeding to Parsifal after accepting Solstice into Star Chamber without going through his "rigmarole," now linking to 143 and 153.  (The original had you wait expectantly for the rigmarole to continue whether you had suffered it or not.  Now you experience no such thing if there's no reason.)

119.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 399, freeing up space for the "Foxglove" correction, and now linking to 409 and 315.

177.  Replaced section.  Golspiel's presentation for players who have a neutral relationship, now linking to 288 and 351.  (The original covered only "we struck a bargain" and "betrayal.")

213.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 223, freeing up space for the new "Kwon's Flail" scene, and now linking to 233.

223.  Replaced section.   A check of whether the player already knows Kwon's Flail, now linking to 363.  (The original only allowed one way to get Kwon's Flail in all the books, reducing player choice.)

251.  Added the option to go to 177 for the "Golspiel" correction.

288.   Replaced section.  Golspiel is denied by players who have either a neutral or negative relationship, now linking to 331.  (The original used "I trust you will remember our agreement" text even when it didn't belong.)

311.  Removed the option to go to 361 (as stated above, all later sections treat 361 exactly the same as 371), freeing up space for the "Solstice" correction.

325.  Added the option to go to 223 for the new "Kwon's Flail" scene.

339.  Added the option to go to 11 for the "Foxglove" correction.

353.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 363, freeing up space for the new "Kwon's Flail" scene, and now linking to 65 and 75.

361.  Replaced section.  Accepting Solstice into Star Chamber without going through his "rigmarole," now linking to 13 and 109.  (The original had you wait expectantly for the rigmarole to continue whether you had suffered it or not.  Now you experience no such thing if there's no reason.)

363.  Replaced section.  New scene where Parsifal teaches Kwon's Flail, now linking to 335 and 345.  (The original only allowed one way to get Kwon's Flail in all the books, reducing player choice.)

369.  Added the option to go to 399 for the "Foxglove" correction.

381.  Edited to send you to 288 instead of 321 for the "Golspiel" correction.

399.  Replaced section.  Conclusion to the assassination scene where you have already killed the enemy and now you react more naturally to Foxglove's warning, now linking to 162.  (The original had you "send her a message of thanks" whether she helped you or not.  Now you only read this if she did.)

415.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 177, freeing up space for the "Golspiel" correction, and now linking to 207 and 217.

Other

Edited all references to a "ninjato" to be a "sword" or "curved sword."  (Historically, "the sword a ninja uses" would be whatever was effective for the task at hand, likely a wakizashi or katana.)

27.  Edited reference to "better man," as implying the gender of the main character is to be avoided.

47.  You now move faster than "sight," not faster than "light."  (Some kinds of hyperbolic language fit better than others.)

64, 184.  Clarified the rules of the Ninja Sentinel fight, what with the guaranteed damage in one section and the ability to reduce his damage statistic in another.

385.  Defined what a "talent" is, clarified that you must pay for the Order of the Yellow Lotus whether they constitute the Watch or not, and included the Temple to Nemesis and the Usurper's Watch for thoroughness even though they cost nothing.

396.  Clarified that none of your Modifiers apply when attacking with a spear.

Guerriero! ha scritto:

General gameplay
As with other books, tidied various combat mechanics, clarified shuriken use, and so on.  There wasn't much need to edit Endurance restoration or gold use.

Style

As with other books, standardized the capitalization, spelling, and phrasing.

Flowchart errors and crashes

43, 351, 381, 391, 401.  Edited to send you to 61 instead of 261.  (You need no longer go back in time just to return to the information "hub.")

140.  Corrected by swapping success and failure between 260 and 270.

219, 321.  Erased and assigned new content (in section repurposing, below), as these were orphaned sections that did not fit in the original flowchart.

361.  Corrected to send you to 271 instead of 371.  (Per the original errata.)

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

165.  Shadazar is now described as heading toward the temples instead of the Palace, as that maintains consistency if the player goes to 23 afterward.

179, 209, 239, 249, 259, 269, 309.  Moved the discussion of the White Mage and the knights of Rocheval to after your march on the large enemy force, not before it, as otherwise you could recruit them without ever knowing who they are.  This means 179 now links to 269, 209 now links to 239, and both 249 and 259 now link to 309.

181.  Your fight with the Son of Nil is no longer described as involving "powerful magic," as technically you could have survived without any.

215.  The tale of executioner spider venom is now presented differently, as your own training in Immunity to Poison could vary dramatically based on when you took the skill.

247, 393.  Your route atop the Palace, and your interaction with the Cave Troll, are now presented in a logical order no matter when you first sight the beast.

252.  The Orb no longer glows "once more," as this could be the first time you experienced it.

315.  "The" purple fire is now slightly rephrased, as you might not have seen it yet.

Conflicts and logic errors

Many edits to maintain internal consistency no matter your route through the book and to help with your tactical decisions.  This includes consistency within the battle map images.

21, 57, 189.  Edited "your trusted servant the Seneschal" to give him a more minor and self-contained role in the book.  (The original spoke as though you should know him from book 4, but you've never actually read about this person before.)

43.  Eliminated the reference to your getting the Grandmaster in Wargrave Abbas killed, because you didn't.  (It is possible that this was confused with events of book 4.)

75, 83, 109, 111, 165, 177, 311, 399.  Changed the symbol and creature to a hippogriff, not a griffon, as per the last two books.  (This is also how the creature is described in 109, so likely the change in this book was nothing more than an error.)

173, 337.  Resolved the two statements for the Cave Troll's Defence against the Iron Fist punch, being 4 and 6, into a single value of 5.

249.  Eliminated the reference to Doré le Jeune being unsmiling, because if you cooperated at all then you saw him smile when you first met.

291.  Eliminated the option to use Kwon's Flail on the Cave Troll and go to 211.  Also, explained in 211, 333, and 359 that Kwon's Flail is a one-time opportunity.  Made the same changes in the parallel 111, 317, and 357.  (We have to assume that Kwon's Flail is one-time as that's the majority rule in this section.  And if so, then all sections where you waste time should punish you the same, like 393 does in the original.)

360, 370.  Swapped the Defence between the punch and kick sections.  (The original made it easier to use a kick, the harder maneuver, without explanation.   It also would conflict with the similar fight you had back in book 3.)

Section repurposing

11.  Added the option to go to 55 for the "Lord High Steward" correction.

17.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 27, freeing up space for the three-route "Sceptre" correction, and now linking to 67.

27, 219.  Replaced sections.  Text similar to 53 or 163, but explaining the function of the Sceptre if you didn't know it already, now linking (from 27) to 243 or (from 219) to 397.  (The original assumed you read the words of Nebr'Volent no matter the route.)

55.  Replaced section.  Text similar to 21, but summarizing the surviving figures of Irsmuncast for players who knew the fate of the Lord High Steward from book 4, now linking to 31.  (Book 4 gave you a Purple Jade Ring upon his death, but the series never used the item.  Now it's used for slight flavor in the routes.)

73.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 55, freeing up space for the "Lord High Steward" correction, and now linking to 33.

77.  Edited to include all the text that used to be in 157, freeing up space for the "Fidelio" correction, and now ending in death.

103, 133, 183.  Added the option to go (from 103 or 183) to 27, or go (from 133) to 219, for the three-route "Sceptre" correction.

121.  Added the option to go to 157 for the "Fidelio" correction.

157.  Replaced section.  New scene after Fidelio's performance where you muse on his words given that you already know the function of the Orb, now linking to 131.  (The original assumed you never used the Orb no matter the route.)

321.  Replaced section.  New scene in Greydawn where you reveal the truth of your offer and hear their refusal, now linking to 235.  (The original said you were going to do this, but instead sent you to 129 where you use the skill of ShinRen whether you have it or not.)

395.  Added the option to go to 321 for the "Greydawn" correction.

Other

11, 33, 159.  Moved the Endurance restoration.  You now heal to maximum Endurance at the end of the struggle in Irsmuncast, not the midpoint.  (Most danger after the midpoint is instant death only, and even so the original never told you to heal at the end.)  You also heal after succeeding in your diplomatic trip.  (The original did not make this explicit.)

130, 228, 324.  Clarified that the nasty effect only takes place if you were already at zero Inner Force when told to lose a point of it.

153.  Edited to make Solstice seem less malevolent.  (His advice had usually been so good.  Obviously, it must be your fault that you can't handle it. Obviously.)

159, 169, 179.  Edited compass directions for the forces of the Rift and the woods near Sundial.  (The original description matched neither our new map nor its original map.)

179.  Edited to be less of a copy of 209, since a player who goes through 179 should also go to 209 in order to survive.

309.  Removed the reference to the village of Beechbridge.  (It may have been intended to be a separate location from the village of Bridgebeam, but it never appears on a map nor is mentioned again, and this is just confusing enough to merit a change.)

332.  Edited reference to "Aveneg boys," as implying the gender of the main character is to be avoided

Inferno! ha scritto:

Book 6 error correction and enhancements

Warband scene.  Cassandra is introduced exactly once, she is never named before then, and you do not forget her thereafter.  The infinite Escapology loop is no more.  Force-Lady Gwyneth does not teleport.

"Decision."  All locations where you could waste time saying "Nah, I don't feel like playing this game" are edited or deleted.

Surface guard scene.  Foxglove no longer dies an unusual number of times.

First tier.  You can no longer summon Foxglove from the grave with Poison Needles.

Sacred Vault scene.  You no longer change your clothes without notice.

Lord Sile scene.  You no longer change your clothes without notice.  The Charioteer fight now has martial arts choices and therefore tells you what Modifier to use.  (The difficulty is unchanged.)

Cavern of the Spider scene.  The sister of Nullaq is no longer seen, unseen, disabled, and in control all at the same time.  Foxglove's consciousness status does not toggle without notice, nor does she sleepwalk.

Third tier.  You can no longer make a risk-free bypass of the adventurers and the entire third tier.  Instead, if you try to bypass, you face a traditional battle and only afterward proceed out.

Adventurers scene.  You and the adventurers are introduced to each other exactly once and without time warps.  Same with their gods.  And their lightning bolts.  You can no longer free yourself from enchantment by succumbing to enchantment.  You no longer stutter reality by playing or skipping book 2.

Final fight sequence.  Foxglove no longer appears without reason, does in fact appear if she had been Cassandra's prisoner, and controls only those people she enchanted.  The climactic final fight sequence is now unavoidable, longer, and more climactic.  (More people get beaten up.  Shh . . . )

General gameplay

As with other books, tidied various combat mechanics, clarified shuriken use, and so on.  There wasn't much need to edit Endurance restoration or gold use, but extra need to edit Inner Force loss and its implications.

Style

As with other books, standardized the capitalization, spelling, and phrasing.

Flowchart errors and crashes

109.  Eliminated the impossible option to go to 319.  (If you had the proper disguise to go to 319, you would have been forced to go there before now.)

241.  Added the normal combat links to sections 211, 221, and 231.  (You no longer are stuck in limbo if you fail to disarm Cassandra.)

420.  In first draft, corrected to send you to 424 (the end of the book) instead of 423.  (It is now possible whatsoever to complete the book.)  After overhauling the flowchart, this section is moved and the whole book ends at 420 as all other books do.

Text problems from taking an unexpected route

18.  You are no longer described as having been cured of plague, as there is no actual check for that occurrence.

71, 333.  Cassandra and Foxglove are no longer described as using their hands for anything, as you might have gotten here with them in chains.

2, 105, 210, 359, 393.  Moved the enchanted disguise of the Torch of Lumen back to when you first pick it up, as it's rather odd to be told halfway through a stealth mission, if ever.

197.  The behavior of the Dwarf-Trolls as you walk past is described differently, as they might or might not have tried to give the alarm before you got here.

291.  The moment where you "sieze the opportunity with fullness, as a ninja should" is now rephrased, as that particular phrasing is unique to the secret Litany of the Ninja Grandmaster.

372.  Revised the creepiness, as it's similar to later creepiness if the player goes to 390.

Conflicts and logic errors

52.  Changed the "arrows," used to indicate the direction of attack, into a general description of how these bodies fell.  (The adventurers who attacked here use no arrows.)

103.  Revised Cassandra's speech about how "unimportant" she is to the Dark Elves, since all other text says that detaining her will anger the Dark Elves.

230.  Added a Defence value of 5 so now you know how to use a shuriken on the Orc.

294.  Edited Defence values for Tyutchev and yourself to be like section 334 instead of 254, matching how distracted he is.

362, 382.  Kwon's Flail is not a throw. (Really.)

Other

5, 253, 313, 355, 363, 383, 403.  Revised all discussion of your debt to Glaivas.  Now it emphasizes how your god would have been incarcerated in Inferno (woo, the title of the book!) if not for him.  (Irsmuncast is much less important than, say, launching the entire book series.)

9, 176, 236, 390, 410.  Added notes about eating and sleeping.  This journey is supposed to be long.

15, 35.  Added the implication the Foxglove uses her enchantments on both men and women, as implying the gender of the main character is to be avoided.

71, 264, 284.  Added some elaboration as to Doré le Jeune's disposition in the Rift.  (In the original, he is given little attention.  Story threads need to be sustained so they can be picked up again in book 7.)

83.  Revised this "death" scene to include your actual death.  (In the original, you don't really die here and instead survive beyond the end of the book.  We now have book 7 to reference, so we can kill you right and proper.)

105, 393.  You now heal to maximum Endurance before leaving Irsmuncast.  (In other words, you now heal for once in the entire book.)

140, 257, 330.  Clarified that you were only "spotted" if the book explicitly told you to make a note.  (For example, running away from the dumb surface guards doesn't count.)

211, 221, 231, 241.  Half-clarified, half-revised so that you may continue regardless of your remaining Endurance.  (You are told that you should be dead but are spared the killing blow, so this is appropriate.)

243, 335.  Added the option to give Cassandra back her sword no matter what route you took.  (Those who've played this book know why.)

306, 326, 410.  Got you back out of any disguise before the end of the book.  (This way there's no question of whether it should impact your gameplay.  And, also, it fits with book 7.)

400.  Demoted this potion to heal only the traditional 10 Endurance, not maximum.  (That was pretty powerful for a zero-risk item.  The Elixir of Health at 19, which requires risk, still heals you to maximum.)

424.  Made small revisions to the last text in the book.  No major changes were needed, and old versions of book 6 still will flow into book 7.  (And, again, this section has been moved so the whole book ends at 420 as all other books do.)

queste purtroppo sono solo indicazioni e non il testo completamente corretto però almeno ci dà un'idea di come è risistemato

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Re: Serie Ninja

Dato che non mi sembra il caso di aprire un nuovo thread per così poco, "sfrutto" quello di Vendicatore (l'utente) per porgere una domandina alla Comunità.

Nel 4° volume della serie, Signore Supremo!, il testo dice che possiamo dare la parola a uno dei quattro consiglieri della Stella a caso se uno di loro non batte il pugno con determinazione sul tavolo.

Cioè?

Al p.233 per esempio c'è scritta l'enigmatica frase:
Se qualcuno tra i presenti non compie questo gesto [Il pugno sul tavolo] o non ha consigli da dare autorizzi ciascuno dei tuoi consiglieri a prendere la parola

E poi ci sono i rimandi ai vari paragrafi dove ciascun membro del consiglio dice la sua.

Fa che ciò che ami sia il tuo rifugio

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Re: Serie Ninja

riprendo questo topic sulla serie Ninja.
Avevo comprati i libri ormai 10 anni fa ma non li avevo mai letti, ora ho approfittato dell'acquisto su Lulu del numero 0 e del numero 7 per iniziare a leggere la serie.
Mi mancano ancora il 6 e il 7 da leggere però devo dire che sono rimasto un po' deluso visto che si tratta di una delle serie più amate. Sarà che non ho più 16 anni ma ho trovato parecchi punti deboli, più di quelli forti.
In particolare non mi piace per nulla il sistema di combattimento che a suo tempo era in effetti innovativo, con le varie mosse che si potevano scegliere, ma finiva lì... oltre al sistema un po' deboluccio (scegli di volta in volta il calcio o il pugno, lanci il dato, e rimbalzi da un paragrafo all'altro...), non ho capito perché il buon Vendicatore sia l'unico Ninja di tutta/o Orb a non usare armi (garrota, shiriken e aghi a parte). Incontriamo  Ninja con un sacco di armi fighe (spade, catene, falcetti, ecc.) e non ne prendiamo mai una, ma soprattutto trovo un po ridicolo l'affrontare nemici potenti (tipo il demone Astaroth, o il Maestro delle Ombre ma anche molti altri) e fare uso solo delle arti marziali... eppure il ninjitsu prevede parecchie armi.
Poi ho trovato parecchi refusi nel testo, in paragrafi dove probabilmente convergevano alcune rami della storia e si faceva riferimento a persone, cose o azioni che non avevo visto/fatto perché erano dell'altro ramo della trama (un po' come capita nei libri che scrivo io...).
Anche nel numero 0, anche se recente, ho trovato una situazione del genere, giusto all'inizio ci viene chiesto se vogliamo unirci al gruppo per conquistare il primo vessillo oppure proseguire oltre per i cazzacci nostri. Io scelgo la seconda opzione così da non avere impicci, invece mi trovi dietro tutta la cumpa... una rapida ricerca ed ecco che in quel paragrafo converge anche il ramo di storia della conquista del primo vessillo, per cui la mia strategia "solitaria" va a farsi benedire.
Boh, poi anche il Ninja che si trova ad amministrare un regno l'ho trovato un po' forzato...
peccato perché la storia in sé non è male, piuttosto originale e che invoglia alla lettura, sorpattutto ora che è uscito il numero 7.
Sono forse troppo critico? A voi è piaciuta lo stesso la serie?

Piango perché una volta ero un fratello, ed ora non lo sono più (K.Von Erich)

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djmayhem ha scritto:

oltre al sistema un po' deboluccio (scegli di volta in volta il calcio o il pugno, lanci il dato, e rimbalzi da un paragrafo all'altro...), non ho capito perché il buon Vendicatore sia l'unico Ninja di tutta/o Orb a non usare armi (garrota, shiriken e aghi a parte). Incontriamo  Ninja con un sacco di armi fighe (spade, catene, falcetti, ecc.) e non ne prendiamo mai una, ma soprattutto trovo un po ridicolo l'affrontare nemici potenti (tipo il demone Astaroth, o il Maestro delle Ombre ma anche molti altri) e fare uso solo delle arti marziali... eppure il ninjitsu prevede parecchie armi.

Ai tempi non l'ho mai percepito come un problema. Considera però che si usciva dagli anni '80, quando i signori Pedersoli e Girotti sistemavano le questioni a schiaffoni, e quando i Visitors venivano combattuti a calci e pugni. In un panorama libroludico dove chiunque usava la spada, un ninja che combatteva a mani nude era la mosca bianca.

djmayhem ha scritto:

Poi ho trovato parecchi refusi nel testo, in paragrafi dove probabilmente convergevano alcune rami della storia e si faceva riferimento a persone, cose o azioni che non avevo visto/fatto perché erano dell'altro ramo della trama (un po' come capita nei libri che scrivo io...).

All'epoca ero convinto di non sapere leggere, ora mi sento sollevato.

"La grammatica è tutto ciò che conta"

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Re: Serie Ninja

considerando che tutti i librigame dell'epoca hanno delle pecche macroscopiche di trama/regolamento/coerenza/bilanciamento è comunque una serie con un sistema di combattimento innovativo, con un'ambientazione diversa dal fantasy "classico" e comunque abbastanza interessante per come è scritta.
Inoltre la difficoltà lo rende stimolante (non ho mai letto il famigerato numero 6, ma finire il 4 è difficilissimo  mad ), ed è una caratteristica di cui mi pare nessuno gli ha mai dato merito (se volete sapere come la penso sui libri troppo facili, aprite il topic su Oberon  angry )

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Re: Serie Ninja

Sono abbastanza d'accordo con Boole nel giudizio complessivo, però diciamocelo: è vero che il sistema di combattimento negli anni è stato fin troppo esaltato.
Indubbiamente fu abbastanza innovativo per l'epoca in cui era stato scritto (anche se, non scordiamocelo, anche in libri più antichi erano stati fatti tentativi del genere), però questa tendenza a presentarlo come geniale e chissà quanto elaborato non mi ha mai convinto.
Forse questa serie più di altre meriterebbe una versione deluxe riveduta, aggiornata e con una massiccia sistemazione delle sovrapposizioni di trama e dei refusi. Anche se, non scordiamocelo, è stata ristampata, anastaticamente, dalla EL quando fu lanciata la versione Deluxe di LS una decina di anni fa.

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Re: Serie Ninja

La versione di cui parli riveduta e corretta già esiste in inglese, per cui ci vuole solo qualcuno che la pubblichi :-D

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Re: Serie Ninja

Prodo ha scritto:

è vero che il sistema di combattimento negli anni è stato fin troppo esaltato.

Quando ho riletto da grande Ninja ho pensato la stessa cosa. Quello che ricordavo come un combattimento fighissimo in cui decidevi mossa per mossa, si è rivelato un semplice: indovina (o ragiona su quale sia) la mossa ottimale per quel combattimento e reiterala finchè non hai finito.
Però da piccolo funzionava, e da piccolo ero in target, ora non più.

Prodo ha scritto:

La versione di cui parli riveduta e corretta già esiste in inglese, per cui ci vuole solo qualcuno che la pubblichi :-D

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Re: Serie Ninja

a parte che se sali nella pagina ci sono tutte le correzioni che hanno indicato in occasione della campagna kickstarter per la ristampa e espansione...

comunque qui
http://www.megara-entertainment.com/

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